[act]gives *dpm* a Topher doll[/act]
Episode 10:
Yay!! The whole cast is all together and happy again!
Hmm, I wonder what they took away from Ballard? I was thinking it might be his love for Echo. ???
Also, I totally PMSL at this exchange:
Clyde: "What year is it?"
Echo: "2010, I think. We don't know how long we've been off the air."
Clyde: "2010? That's all? Then there's still time! We might still be able to stop them!
Echo: "That's our mission."
Teehee, love it. :D
Just watched ep 7, 8 will have to wait till after I've had a shower (and then there's 9 & 10, how did I fall so far behind?!)
So, spoiler for ep 7
ADELLE!! What the hell?! She just started everything that was bad in Epitah One!! AND she's going to cause Topher's breakdown! Remember the "Why didn't I invent that tech?" "You did" conversation between Topher and Adele in Epitah One? She didn't mention SHE gave it to Rossum, now did she?
Man, she has some serious do-gooding to do... I so want Epitah One to not happen though, I want it to be like in Flashforward where everyone saw the future but hopefully they can all change it. But it's not going to work like that :( Maybe in ep 13 of this season we'll have an Epitah Two but they'll manage to somehow save the day...[act]wishful thinking[/act]
Poor poor Topher! Don't you just want to hug him?
Also, I loved Echo's flicking between personalities to escape the prison. Adelle being mega-beep and not letting her have a treatment sucks though. This had better be part of some big and awesome plan...
Ashling Guildmistress
14 years ago
Wed Dec 23 2009, 09:32pm
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
LOL Unykorn XD I love that too! Except - sadness - I didn't get it until you mentioned it.
I was thinking '2010, that's not right, perhaps it's due to the crappy airing schedule'
Brilliant XD I LOVE subtle things like that.
And my goodness - 9 & 10 episodes were just GOLD! This season is SO much better than the first! I'm trying to get one of my colleagues to watch it, but they just look at me with a sceptical 'you're just a Whendon fan, you just say that' sort of look.
So damn interesting! I can't wait for the next episodes to come out!
Re. ep 10
& the attic - if anyone says 'Matrix already did that'...
I really love the idea people the potential behind the potential of the human mind.
Oh also - I loved seeing Adele redeem herself! Awesome bit of writing and when I rewatch this series, I'll be watching all these little signs.
[act]dances[/act] ah I could be at home right now and watch it to my leisure. But alas...
I just had a terrible thought. My brother leaves for Europe on Boxing Day - I'm going to have to get him to teach me how to get Dollhouse myself!
9 + 10! OMG Unykorn, I didn't get that either until you pointed it out XD so clever and funny!
The only thing I didn't like about them was that Dominic was just accepted back into the group. Particularly around Sierra/Priya. That gave me the creeps!
Did anyone else love it that on Victor/Anthony's first night out, he slept in the bathtub? XD bless.
I can't believe Adele's transformation at the end of ep 10! I didn't see it coming. She'd been convincing us for episodes that she had turned to the dark side. For a while there, I was convinced that Echo had drugged her whisky or whatever she's drinking, to give them time to mobilise/go after Victor with Sierra. But maybe Adele made it happen, to give them the opportunity.
It still doesn't explain why she's so awful to Topher. She seems to genuinely hate him. Or perhaps she thinks it's some absurd motivational technique.
Anyway - LOVE IT, so much. The whole show is so clever and interesting. Again, can't believe there's only 3 to go. Perhaps their little dig at 2010 / still time to save it is a sign that there's still some hope and we shouldn't give up? :)
On the plus side, I have managed to convince a work colleague to watch Dollhouse - so - yay! He's only up to the end of season one, but still! Can discuss around the water cooler now as well as here :P
omg 11!
I suspected that Boyd was going to be a Rossum head about half way through the episode. The way they were building up to it it had to be someone we knew, and he was most likely. I was hoping against hope that I was wrong. Now I want to tear my hair out. Boyd! Things fall apart, the centre cannot hold... I suppose there's a chance he's a sleeper as well, but that might be a cop-out and, after all, someone had to have corrupted Whiskey.
I was so sad about Bennet, as well. After seeing the flashback more fully, Caroline's reasons for leaving her are completely reasonable imo, though I can see how it fed into Bennet's neuroses, why she considered it a betrayal. I wanted a meeting between them.
Do you think there's a chance of them making a movie, as they did with Firefly?
Gods, I hope we get 12 soon.
Ashling Guildmistress
14 years ago
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
Side bar filler
Boyd Boyd Boyd!
It's like - oh, it was coming (i.e. I didn't know it was going to be Boyd, but I suspect it had to be one of the inner crew!) and so while it wasn't a complete shock (I had suspicions about Ivy at one stage), I was still ).(
Or perhaps, really I was still reeling from the fact they killed off Topher's love interest! [act]is reeling[/act]
:( I really liked Bennet, and Summer Glau did an awesome job portraying her (I wanted more of her character). Lol @ Topher's:
'You know, I've always had a crush on you. Even when I thought you were a guy. This is better.'
XD Man I love Topher's character - no wonder he ends up in a spiral of descent.
:-/ I'm a little worried to see that the events of Epitaph are coming into play, with Boyd leaving behind Claire and so I wonder what sort of epic end we are going to receive at the end. I don't want Topher to go into madness :( and I can't say I really want the world to collapse.
I wish Fox did give this show a chance, because I would have loved to have seen more about what was happening on the outside, rather then just what was happening to the mains.
Re, Movie - egads I don't know! Just RRRR FOX! I have to say the cast is amazing and I would love to see them all back together.
All in all, another brilliant episode and by far the best thing I have to watch and look forward to.
14 years ago
Mon Jan 11 2010, 07:23am
OMGOMGOMG! Sidebar filler :P
What an amazing episode! Oh, and I have to say from the get-go:
"Miss I-can-kill-you-with-my-brain"
XD bhahahahaha! Lovely nod to River Tam!
I was shocked the entire episode - I didn't suspect Boyd, because he's always been so encouraging and helpful to Echo. He seemed like a father figure. Some of it does make sense now, that he's the one, considering how quickly Rossum gets onto things, or ignores other things. But what's his frikkin' motive!? Also, total squee-jump-for-joy when we found out that he was hiding Whisky, and total chills with the last line of the ep: "with your life". Eek!
Caroline's vendetta against Rossum goes back further than I thought it did. I'd always thought that she'd learned of them in college and started to fight them then. But it looks like she simply went to that college to locate and use Bennet.
:O Bennet! OMG! What a wonderful character, and what a sudden killshot! DAMN YOU JOSS! It's like "I'm a leaf on the wind" all over again! Why did they kill her? Simply to drive Topher mad? Because they still let him complete the wedge to give Echo back the memories.
Argh, I cannot wait for this to tie all together. MK we might have to have a marathon next weekend after LLBF or something!
I sure hope they make a movie, or at least something. What if Joss does with Dollhouse what he has said he'll begin doing; producing for the online market? It would work as an internet-series.
Cannot believe there's only 2 episodes left :(
14 years ago
Mon Jan 11 2010, 08:05pm
Ah Dollhouse has been so good! I can only echo (heh heh) everyone else's bittersweet excitement for the coming episodes.
Boy oh boy oh Boyd! Even though he's been conveniently there for everything and not really doing anything much apart from seemingly keeping some ideas of morale decorum floating around the place, I did not expect him at all.
Also, poor Bennet... just as her character was revealing itself as less 'I'm just a conniving, revenge seeking, crazy person that sporadically mutters to oneself' and more 'Yes I am still those things but I've been through a lot and no one really understands me, so that's deep... well more interesting anyway'.
And hehe Topher.
'Stay back I have imprinted myself with many useful skills! You don't even want to know.' *is knocked out cold*
I'm also hoping for a movie or internet series, flip book... anything really.
14 years ago
Tue Jan 12 2010, 07:11am
You know I've been thinking about Caroline, and who she is...
Boyd tells Echo in 11 that he's never met Caroline. Is this a lie? Or actually...something bigger being hinted on?
Whenever they mention Caroline in the flashbacks, they know immediately who she is, and Adelle goes as far as saying 'I thought we were done with her'. She's obviously had some sort of even more former past with Rossum.
When the directors both meet her, they don't seem to hate her - they seem almost proud or in awe of her.
My thought is that Caroline is a construct - a Doll herself. Perhaps the first doll? Perhaps a rebuilt daughter, or something, of someone important.
And if Caroline's a construct...who became self-aware like Echo...perhaps she's in the Attic. And the entire series of Dollhouse is her Attic dream :-/ think about it - if she truly hates Rossum/the Dollhouse, her 'dream' of turning into another Doll - would be one of her worst nightmares - particularly with Boyd - leader of Rossum - her handler, someone she is programmed to trust. The apocalypse future they see could be part of the dream; 'because you, Caroline, failed, the world will end' type thing. The doll consciousness starts taking control of her - Echo becoming self-aware, not wanting Caroline back, Caroline's original wedge missing...more nightmarish stuff to the real Caroline.
Because I've been thinking...the very end of Epitaph One; the little girl is imprinted with Caroline's memories, and then goes out the window and starts climbing up. Are they climbing up to the Attic, to find Caroline herself imprisoned there? Is it the end of her dream?
This would leave us in the 'it's all a dream' ending :-/ which I don't think they'd do to us...but it's been fun speculating and I'll be happy to be surprised over the next two weeks :P
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHH! I hope this fills the sidebar.
Re Bennet's death, I want to repeat something that one of my Livejournal friends was saying: We Whedon fans talk constantly about the emotional heartbreak Whedon puts us through. We know he is infamous for killing off people as soon as they're happy, and yet we're surprised every single time it happens. So true.
I feel really ashamed, but I did not see the big reveal coming at all. I was really unhappy to see that it was Boyd, too. I really liked him, and had always viewed him as a Giles-like figure. I actually feel really stupid to have not worked it out. I had worked out that Adelle was certainly not on the side of Rossum, because it was so obvious (her antagonism to Echo and the other forces of 'good' (not sure if you can really be 'good' in the Dollverse) was so extreme, it had to be a cover), but I genuinely did not expect Boyd to be the antagonist. :(
The one thing that bothers (or really, saddens) me is that I feel this entire storyline is way, way too rushed. I'm glad that it's happening, since it will leave the series reasonably well tied up when it ends, but I'm so grumpy at the injustice of it all. Dollhouse shouldn't have been axed. This storyline needed two or three seasons to slowly develop, not the bang bang bang speed that it's happening now. *curses Fox*
Min, those are interesting thoughts, and I'll have to ponder them some more before responding.
Exactly! More sidebar filler :P
Just wanted to add - I was torn about Boyd as well and also didn't see it coming :( and that's a good parallel seeing him as a Giles-ish character.
I guess he's more like a Shepherd Book character, now? Only we don't know the mystery behind Book's life, still :P
[act]curses Fox...for Firefly, and Dollhouse[/act]
Cursing Fox is too easy. They've screwed over far too many Whedon shows, and I'm really glad that he's essentially said that he's looking into moving more permanently into writing web-based series.
The Shepherd Book parallel is a really good one, and probably more accurate than the Giles one I had imagined earlier (although you've got to admit, Joss did seem to be asking us to interpret Echo and Boyd's relationship in that manner. He is such an evil genius).
I caught up on the episodes and OMG...
These last few episodes have been simply brilliant. I agree with what everyone else has said:
Gotta say I love the Anthony/Victor and Priya/Sierra pairing!!
Can't believe Bennet was SHOT just like that! I thought Whisky was going to do something, but not SHOOT her... And it is like the 'I'm a leaf on the wind' sort of shock. You just don't expect it.
And shock AGAIN Boyd!? I never even considered it would ever be him because, like someone else has said, he just never came up on my radar, he was always so supportive and encouraging... Can't believe it! No!
Just so unpredictable and shocking!
Only two more episodes. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
14 years ago
Sun Jan 17 2010, 03:11am
Filling the sidebar before going on to post some spoilers after Episode 12, 'The Hollow Men'...
I enjoyed it, but it, like the whole season, seemed far too rushed. It was all 'bang bang band revelation revelation' and the characters' personalities transformed far too quickly (I don't mean a person turned into a Doll, but rather that Topher, for example, went from a nervous wreck to an almost-hero with a conscience within the space of about five minutes, Pria and Antony went from wanting to live normal lives to charging in as the cavalry and Ballard went from vengefully trying to avenge Mellie's death to comforting Echo within the same amount of time).
Was that the impression you got?
It was also far too neat for a Whedon ending, I thought. Oh, sure, there was the flash forward to an apocalyptic 10 years later, but I still felt the 'good guys' 'won' far too easily. Although presumably the implication is that this is where humanity is heading, and even though the technology was destroyed and Topher will not recreate it, someone else will. It's a pretty bleak thing to think of humanity!
I think it's heading for a bit of a Buffy Season 4 ending, ie the big epic battle is not the finale, and the finale is more contemplative. That could be cool.
I feel an intense urge to blog coming on...
I agree with everything you said, Dolorosa. Was 12 the final episode? It was so condensed I found it almost unsatisfying.
I'm so sad that it's over... :( One more ep to go, perhaps that's where they tie it all up properly? I agree with Lol and dolorosa, it was a bit condensed and I wasn't completely satisified by it!
I love that they let the Victor/Anthony actor play Topher again. He does it so well!
I was also wondering where the hell Alpha came into all of this. Perhaps even though they've killed Rossum, Alpha is the one to bring it all down. And did I hear right that they pulled Saunders out before it went kaboom?
So unfinished and a tad bit unsatisifying for a final ep. I assume ep 13 will be set in the future like Epitaph 1?
And apparently we have to wait two weeks for Epitaph 2???? WTH! I'm so sick of TV networks axing fantastic and brillant shows! GR!
I think they've delayed it for a multi-network telethon for the Haithi earthquake, which is at least a good cause.
Man, I'm so far behind in Dollhouse, and I would be catching up now except I'm all sick and don't think I could concentrate enough :( Still, I don't go back to Uni till March so I've got time to watch them ;D
Lol, there's one more episode, 'Epitaph 2', but it won't show for another two weeks. Jossie,
I agree with you, Enver Gjokaj (the actor who plays Anthony/Victor) does such a good job playing Topher. As one of my friends said, 'one of the worst things about the cancellation of Dollhouse is that we won't see Gjokaj playing Topher anymore'. He just gets all the mannerisms: the nervous giggle, the jittery twitching, the staccato speech, so perfectly.
14 years ago
Tue Jan 19 2010, 07:22am
Dollhouse-Spoiler-filler-zone :P
I agree with you guys as well. It was so rushed, so many big reveals, it all happened too quickly. If they'd had the opportunity to reveal all of these big things over the space of 5 seasons, like they originally intended, it would have been much more effective and we could give huge reveals, such as Caroline's biological anomalies, and Mellie's death, time to sink in. They glossed over the explanation and the acceptance of this so much but the most painful thing is that, I dunno, you could sort of see that they were loathed to rush it in the packaging.
Where was the exploded building at the end? Pointed jibe at lack of funding?
YES, am so glad we saw Victor play Topher one more time :) such a brilliant actor. And yes, he gets everything from the giggle to the mannerisms perfect.
There are two main character histories that I'm really worried we won't hear about now, given how much Epitaph Two has to fit in: Caroline's (her actual motivations for going after Rossum to start), and Alpha's (what is the actual point of his character?). Alpha's bugs me more than knowing Carolines to be honest, because he was always such a big, bad guy, mentioned all the time, and the build up, currently, is all in aid of making Paul a doll, and possibly masking the importance of Echo. In that, "oh, Echo's playing up again, it's not because she's different, it's because Alpha messed with her mind". The saving grace may be that Alan Tudyk is credited in Epitaph Two on IMDB so I hope they show more of his story...though I doubt it! There's a moment in Epitaph One (yes, MK and I re-watched Epitaph One straight after Hollow Men ~:| ) where Echo says, "We have Alpha to thank for that", and it was either in reference to the finding of Sanctuary, or in the taking down of another Dollhouse. So, my thought is that Paul Ballard's imprint in Alpha is taking control now and then, like he did when Echo got the chance to kill him just after he'd done it.
Did anyone else want to bawl when Boyd was standing there, explosives wrapped to him, holding the grenade and smiling as Echo left the room? I know he was a psycho, but :"( we've been watching him as the father figure of Echo for so long, and his character's motives aren't black and white...there's so much grey that it's impossible to say he was good or bad. Actually it's that way with all of the characters...they don't have evil or good characters in this show, just people with motives and consciences...that's why it's so interesting.
Yeah Dolorosa - I'm also really glad that he's moving to web-based projects. I was reading the Joss page on Wiki yesterday to see what was next, and apparently we have a horror film to look out for, with both Amy Acker and Fran Kranz in it - called Cabin in the Woods. It would be out in a couple of weeks initially, but they're pushing it's release back a whole year to convert to 3D :P
Ashling Guildmistress
14 years ago
Tue Jan 19 2010, 07:29am
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
I can't actually comment on the last Dollhouse ep yet because my head is still reeling over what happened.
I do agree with has been said though - and it saddens me that one of that the only show I really look forward to watching each week (albeit, I do only watch a couple :P) is as good as over.
*sigh* I don't know - I think I'm glad that things were on the whole explained rather than just left us hanging - whenever I think of the rushed factor of it I think of Fox and many sharp things :P
2 weeks! DX
Watching Epitaph One again, and Alpha gets mentioned that 'we have Alpha to thank' for safehaven. So I wonder if that'll fit in anywhere... I totally agree about the 'where's Alpha' plot, but in honesty there are so many plot lines that I wish to know:
- Leo: Caroline's bf
- How the heck Topher goes crazy?
- What happened to the senator and how was he to help take over the world sort of thing
- What happened to the other Dollhouses
- Do the other Dollhouses know what Boyd was planning?
- Dominic...
Regarding switching between imprints...
What I did think that was interesting was that Millie started fighting off the assasin imprint before she was to shoot Paul.... loosely like Caroline did. Also, Paul took over Alpha. The common factor there though is love...
MK, I've got some thoughts on some of your 'Epitaph One' spoilers.
I think Topher's craziness is due to a combination of two things:
1. He invented the technology that allowed the whole world to be turned into Dolls; and,
2. He inadvertently caused Bennet's death.
Does that make sense?
Ashling Guildmistress
14 years ago
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
[act]sobs[/act]
Poor little Topher!
I like those ideas Dolorosa; Min also mentioned the idea that Topher deletes some of his memories because what happens is too painful for him.
Thinking back on Ep 13, and all that happens i.e. Topher going from nervous wreck to major heroics... I'm not sure that Topher would give up so easily. :-/
I HATE that they killed of Bennett :( she was just getting interesting - and yes, we know it is so a Joss thing to do *le sigh* I still wanna blame fox, cause I reckon if the season went on longer we could have seen more of her :P
MK - thanks for that quote in it's proper place! I wonder where Alpha's safehaven is, then? Somewhere we've already seen? The electric bunker he steals Echo away to at the end of s1 perhaps? It's surrounded by tech...so probably not :P
I think with the senator - they would have done more with him if they had more time - but with his 'wife' dead, and him outcasting Mellie, I guess they just let him fade off into the world...and that's a 'good enough' ending to his story arc.
I'm also adamant that Topher will remove some of his own memories. I don't see how he's not doing it already, considering he believes the mind to be so much like a computer program. It'll be his way to push forward - remove things troubling himself like the murder of Nolan, and Bennet's death, and that he invented the tech that brings about the apocalypse :P - just like he does for the dolls (Madeline: I remember it, but I no longer feel pain). Only, I guess he either goes too far (removes too much), or makes a mistake...and I don't see it like he'll decide to give up - it's more 'I can help everyone if I'm my best' :P you know?
I'm still jipped that all was forgiven/forgotten with Dominic ":( so I'm not going to even go there :P