The Destroyer is hunting her before that particular dream. I was referring to comments made by Galtha and Maruman even before Dragon's little adventure.
16 years ago
Fri Feb 22 2008, 07:23am
Savage also might imply what Elspeth picks up from it. Matthew would be urgent, probably angry at himself for the Dragon thing, desperate. Elspeth's no empath; so this force is chasing her in her dreams - she'll probably freak out a bit herself.
braolainn - which page / dream is it in Ashling? :)
16 years ago
Fri Feb 22 2008, 06:48pm
Actually, the H'rayka, not the Destroyer, is first mentioned after Dragon has her little showdown with the mysterious soldierguard captain, page 202 Ashling. In it, Maruman himself mentions he is weary of battling H'rayka to guard Elf. She then translates this as one who breaks or rends, and jumps to the conclusion that H'rayka=Destroyer. About 30 pages later she starts dreaming of being stalked on the Dreamtrails. I'm 95% sure that only once has anyone hunted her in her dreams before that, as on that page Elspeth is shocked to hear someone was stalking her dreams. The only thing before that is when Elf is unconscious from the knife, she dreams specifically of Ariel and Maruman saves her. So there's actually no mention of the Destroyer at all.
Ok. Question: This may be a VERY silly thing to not understand, but how exactly are we going to know who the Destroyer is? Firstly, Isobelle has said that yes, Elspeth succeeds, so obviously the Destroyer doesn't. So if the Destroyer doesn't succeed, then how do we know who they are? Ariel and Matthew are going to be in the tunnel anyway, and if Matt isn't the Destroyer, then so will at least one other person. So how do we know who is who if they never do any destroying?
I'm pretty sure we will be told. I mean obviously we will be. But how it plays out is completely unpredictable. I'm guessing the Destroyer will come very close to fulfilling his 'destiny' but at the very last second is overcome by Elspeth. The Destroyer may even die, so lets hope it isn't Matt or Dameon!
I'm assuming Atthis or Maruman will finally reveal it.
I was just wondering what people think of the idea that Dell may be the destroyer, i know she said that they would not meat again but she is also fascinated by the computer and in trying to get into it's locked zones, where only Elspeth can go...does any one else think that it may be a possibility
The one problem with that is she isn't in the first book :). Her ideas'll be important, though.
They may meet again - TSK seems to indicate the flawed nature of futuretelling - it only indicates the most likely possibility, and therefore the future can be altered - well, not altered, but it may not turn out as foretold...
Well actually, this idea has been brought up since TF when Atthis mentioned that futuretelling was like a river who's course was long decided and that a time of flood or no rain may change (i.e. choices still influence the future). TSK merely extended this idea and gave it a more realistic context.
Srry, I had to bring this up b/c I remember in another thread some ppl were really annoyed that IC seemed to retcon the idea of the certainity of futuretelling when in actual fact she brought it up ages ago...
16 years ago
Tue Feb 26 2008, 08:15am
Dell can't be the destroyer, as she has forseen that she and Elspeth will never meet again.
We have all joked about Rushton being the Destroyer, but i believe that this could still be the case. I will explain my reasoning:
1. The Destroyer isn't necessarily evil Rushton is not inherently evil. He only appeared that way in TSK after Ariels manipulations of his mind.
2. What happens at the end is an accident Rushton could believe that he is doing something good, but accidentaly sets them off (ok, i agree that this one is a bit weak)
3. No one has ever guessed them IC is not about to tell us that one of the people we suspected is the Destroyer. Better to keep us guessing until the end!
4. We will be surprised. Well who could be more of a suprise than the Master of Obernewtyn?!
As i see it Elspeth believes (and by consequence so do we) that all of the damage done to Rushtons mind by Ariel is healing. Elspeth also believes what she's been told about Ariel not being able to forsee everything. However, what if he foresaw that Elspeth would save Rushton, and that he would travel with her to the LotRQ? Could he not have implanted some deep-seated command that would activate once Rushton got to the right place? Could that command not be something like rendering Elspeth immobile or unconscious (once she's entered the chamber), and trying to set off the weaponmachines?
As to why the Destroyer appears on the dreamtrails before Rushton is tortured; time seems to be irrelevant on the dreamtrails. If Elspeth can travel to the past, why not the destroyer?
Something else that may backup my theory: Elspeth has been told that there will be nothing to return to after her quest. We have all assumed that this will mean that something happens to Obernewtyn, but isn't Rushton a big part of Obernewtyn for Elspeth? What if she has to stop him from activating the weaponmachines by using her killing power? That would leave nothing at Obernewtyn for her to return to...
Good theory eh? ;)
Noooooooooooooooooooooooo!Noooooooo!
I hate that idea. How dare you?! >:(
I think Rushton's been tortured enough and that it's someone else's turn to be in the spotlight. He's had a massive story arc all to himself, and while the clues do fit him, they also fit a lot of other people, as we well know :P.
:'(
I like the idea Ariel did forsee Elf saving Rushton tho!
16 years ago
Tue Feb 26 2008, 05:39pm
It's a good concept, DO. And - judging from the reaction - it would be unexpected, and thus a surprise.
But I do agree with Alexis here - Rushton's already had his story arc played out, and I don't see him actually doing much more. I'll be very surprised if he's on the boat to the Red Land with Elspeth; I doubt that Obernewtyn will let him go. He's not only the Master of Obernewtyn but will probably be the Chieftain of Obernewtyn by then too.
While it's a good concept, I don't think he'll be in the right place at the right time, and it's more likely that he was the Kasanda blood :)
Regarding the 'nothing to return for' at Obernewtyn - I know Rush is a big part of her life, but she's not defined by his presence at Obernewtyn. She has people there who rely on her, friends, the beast guild, etc. She wouldn't turn around and say 'there's nothing left for me', just because Rushton wasn't there any longer. Chances are, if Rushton is out of the picture, Obernewtyn would be left to Elspeth, anyway - since they're practically bonded.
[act]wonders if Rushton's considered writing a will[/act] :P
I think the 'nothing to return to' statement is more likely the evolution of freedom that we were seeing in TSK. There's a permanent teknoguild settlement at Newrome. There's some more Obernewtyn-ers now setting up settlement in the Beforetime library. Dameon wants to return to his farm. They'll all start integrating into the Land again; so there won't be any more Obernewtyn, in the conventional sense - it'll have to find it's new place in the Land.
Ashling Guildmistress
16 years ago
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
Just providing some further support for DO's theory. It's often been said that the Destroyer is Elspeth's equal. Elspeth is Talented. Rushton is not. Opposite - plus she mentions that Rushton's mind could be as strong, if not stronger than her own in the first book.
16 years ago
Tue Feb 26 2008, 06:05pm
I'd just like to point out that this is really only speculation on our part because *Elspeth* says ONE TIME "she has always considered The Destroyer her elemental opposite." And she says this doubtfully as she is *questioning* that theory!!!!!
IC has never said this as far as I am aware, because every time I or another person has asked this on this board (and that's quite a few times) no one has ever been able to confirm that she said it. What Elspeth thinks is by no means gospel, and anyway it could easily refer to the fact that they have the same quest but are after opposite outcomes.
16 years ago
Tue Feb 26 2008, 05:54pm
Rushton is talented though. He has the ability to store abillities, if that makes sense. Isobelle confirmed it for us; that's why the Farseekers always do best when he's around, and how the original posse of Domick/Roland/Maryon etc were able to rove about and contact Elspeth in Obernewtyn - using Rushton as a focus.
If anything the equal but opposite applies to Dameon; he is Talented, so he is Elspeth's equal. And he has the only talent that she lacks.
But then the equal/opposite thing hasn't been confirmed has it? Is that a quote or speculation?
Edit: thought so - speculation, that is...Alexi posted while I was typing :P
16 years ago
Tue Feb 26 2008, 06:05pm
It's speculation!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry, it annoys me a lot that people put so much faith in that when it seems to come out of nowhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-{
Edit: I posted this while Min was editing hers ;)
Ashling Guildmistress
16 years ago
Tue Feb 26 2008, 06:22pm
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
Ah but see, that is the nature of humans to place faith in ideas even if they cannot be fully explained or justified.
Without a little faith theories could never become fact ;)
~~~~
EDIT: That being said, sometimes we discuss so much on here that I get confused between my fact and fiction :P I don't know whether I like the idea of Rushton as Destroyer just yet... but I haven't ruled it out yet.
Matty is still my fav though ;)
I want Dameon to be the deastroyer - therefore I will alter my perception of OC and weld my beliefs in relation to the story so that whenever I look at OC, all I can see is Dameon as the destroyer. That way, when we finally find out, I can be smugly justified in my belief, or wallow in IC's betrayal of my faith :roll:
I think arguing a point that cannot be resolved except through the last book is part of the fun of OC :P
I still don't see Dameon as the Destroyer. It is said that the destroyer is not necessarily evil, but Dameon is so far removed from evil to be almost Angelic!!
Matthew could have been the Destroyer once. He used to be headstrong, and act before thinking, but whilst he has been in the LotRQ he has learned some sense and humility.
I still think Rushton will travel to the LotRQ, even if he is made Cheiftan. All the other Cheiftans will be travelling there to prevent a war, and I truly believe that Rushton will be part of it,
I checked that quote. It's actually rather cryptic.
"Saw Innle on blackdeathroad. Going to the endmost means end of barud. Obernewtyn finished and all gone for Innle."
You know this has always seemed bleak to me but I just had a thought. What if it means that Obernewtyn's task is finished, completed and "all gone for Innle" doesn't have to mean that there is nothing left for her but that the've gone after her/looking for her.
You see - that whole picking up little things is why I can't let go of the idea that the zebkrahn is important in some way - the name or the fact that it actually exists there - it jussst keeps bugging me...