Ashling Guildmistress
15 years ago
Sun May 03 2009, 02:59pm
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
[act]words cannot express[/act]
So I got SO excited to see Wash in this episode - and he played his character so well - I mean, I kept seeing him as his character from Firefly but he played the drugged up/smart guy really well. And he was so funny.
And then
BOMBSHELL?!
OMFG HE IS ALPHA?!
[act]needs to return later to post a more coherent reply[/act]
Absolutely brilliant! And I'm SO sad to think that this series will be ending soon. It has so much potential!
Initial thoughts atm include:
- it ate at me that Ballard and Dickson were fighting each other, because they both seem like good guys
- I'm not sure what Paul was hoping to achieve in breaking Echo out
- I wonder what imprint Echo received? Is it Caroline?
- I wonder if Alpha was her initial boyfriend?
omg omg omg
EDIT: Wow - that was an oddly incoherent post ~:| haha I got a wee bit excited over this episode and the :O that was dropped on us.
Sadly, I cannot help get the feeling that the revelation that we received in this episode was much too rushed for Joss' liking. It was great but just - there was potential for the show to develop more, I mean we were only just scratching the surface at the other issues the Dollhouse could provide help with/resolve. There was so much combined into that episode. It was fantastic! But :-/
But yes, I look forward to other people's thoughts (and seeing if your reactions were much the same as mine ^.^;;)
15 years ago
Sun May 03 2009, 06:24pm
MK I totally agree with you when
Dickson and Ballard were fighting. I was so torn. Who do you want to win the fight?? Despite Dickson being a handler and now the head of security, he has something about him... perhaps he is our insider - I still believe there must be someone on the inside!
And yes, I agree it was such a shock that he turned out to be Alpha. I do believe Joss would have developed it better. It does seem to be rushing
Is anyone even sure that this show is going to be axed? I think we're all thinking it will be. It's just so sad! Joss produces the best shows ever, and they're deep and questioning... not mainstream at all. He is an utter genius... Take Firefly for example... GR! I'm so frustrated!!
EDIT: My sister is currently rewatching it and did anyone else notice...
when Domick/Victor says "Whisky" before he gets the sedation shot. Everyone just ignores it thinking he wants a shot of alcohol, Whisky... but what if this is the hint? You know how we are all were talking about how it might be possible the people in charge are maybe dolls as well? That may very well indicate that one of the others are a Doll... perhaps all of them even.
Jossie, I definitely agree with you about the part where Dominic says 'Whiskey'. I was convinced he meant a Doll, rather than the drink. I don't think the people who run the Dollhouse are Dolls, though.
It took me ages to reply to this thread this week, because most of my reaction (while I was watching the episode, and afterwards) was just fangirlish squeeing about Wash, oops, sorry, Alan Tudyk, being in the episode. :D I agree with you, he did a really good job playing a paranoid potthead hippie, so much so that although I knew he was Alpha, when he suddenly went into Alpha-mode, I was really shocked and chilled.
In terms of what you were saying, MK, I don't think that Alpha is Caroline's original boyfriend. I think there was more of a Victor-Sierra situation with them when they were both Dolls - that is, that they started to become self-aware, and fell in love with one another.
Did anyone else find the Sleeping Beauty metaphor really creepy? I've always found fairytales kind of scary, and thought that they had a darker edge that gets softened out in Disney versions of the tales, and there was something about the way this episode melded the metaphor of Sleeping Beauty with the metaphor of the Dollhouse that really made me uneasy.
15 years ago
Sun May 03 2009, 10:26pm
Oh. My. God!! That was fantastic!! I don't have time to read everyone else's replies, but here are some very brief initial thoughts (and trust me, you do not want to be spoiled about this episode)
Wash is ALPHA!! OMG!!! I thought something interesting was going to happen when he was in the house, but not that! Totally suprised me. I am still reeling, such a shock. He was hilarious with his home grown carrots.
I wonder what imprint is in him. I mean, clearly it's degenerated and changed and stuff, but was he asleep (and thus doll-state) when he broke out the first time or was he imprinted? And, I wonder if this is his original personality breaking through, or some crazy amalgamation of heaps of imprints. And I wonder what imprint he put in Echo, I doubt it's Caroline. I wonder if it's someone he (the original alpha - who it seems went to school with Dominic) liked before he was a doll.
Also, Victor's face! Poor guy.
EDIT: Ok, so I did read everyone's responses, too hyped not to
I agree with not knowing who you want to win when Ballard was fighting Boyd. Boyd was nice though, constantly telling him to just get out.
Mmm, if they're using the umm, I've forgotten the name, but the alphabet you use in planes which all the other names have been from, then Whiskey is W. Maybe Paul's whiskey...
Anyway, need to go to bed.
LOL I think I had the exact same reactions as everyone else!
I'm SO happy that if Alpha couldn't be Ballard, it was [strike]Wash[/strike] Alan Tudyk. Was anyone else cheering "I'm a leaf on the wind!!" all the way through the episode? No? Just me ~:| ?
His inclusion did feel a bit rushed in there which is sad because of the feeling-of-cancellation (even if it's only rumours)...
Agree about the Ballard/Dickson fight. What I really enjoy about the show is the complexity of these characters, that we can say Boyd, Topher, the doctor lady, etc are good guys, and that Alpha is the evil bad guy. Yeah, ok so he's a psychopath going out and killing people (VICTOR! :( "people were fighting on me") but on a base level what he's been put through makes him - almost - the prince, or at least the hero with a chip on his shoulder...and mental illness...argh! I dunno. I'm so conflicted in who we should be cheering for! And it's great - there's no where near enough shows out there with this level of character complexity.
I can't believe there's only one episode to go...at least, according to Wikipedia...
Right, we finally have a UK air date!
Tuesday 19th May at 9pm BST on the UK Sci-Fi Channel
A theory that's been floating around the internet for a few days is that Whiskey is actually Dr Saunders (the character played by Amy Acker). It would explain why she never leaves the Dollhouse, why she never seems to question the ethics of it or show any interest in anything beyond her job, and most importantly, why she was absent for the time when the various Actives were allowed to become themselves again and work through their issues.
What are people's thoughts on that?
15 years ago
Wed May 06 2009, 10:22pm
I'll skip the part where i basically repeat things other people have said and skip straight to... This is the darkest Paul Ballard has ever been. I mean he's always been a little creepy, but his obsession with Caroline/Echo and his rejection of Melly/November were frightening in this episode. Melly is the one he has a connection with. He's talked to her, slept with her, spent time with her, seen clearly just how callously she was being used. His empathy should have been for her but he used the spy excuse to leave her. [censored].
I loved the use of Briar Rose. It worked on so many levels. Yes, fairy tales are creepy (as well as beautiful) and they have so much potential for symbolism.
Dolorosa I don't know about Dr. Saunders. I've heard so much speculation about the Dollhouse staff members being Dolls that it's started to seem a little obvious. Then again, I didn't even notice that she wasn't around in the episode you mention. I've always thought that she seemed deeply uncomfortable with the Dollhouse, but went along with it for myseterious personal reasons. I wish this was a 24 episode series so they could explore the personalities and motives of these people in a more leisurely way.
Guys, how is this going to end? I just can't come up with anything that seems really likely. How can there be only one more episode.
Wow. Omega was another very busy episode.
Looks like the whiskey suspicions were right on the mark.
I find myself having nothing to say save for the fact that I want more. Now I have nothing to watch with the Doctor Who hiatus and Battlestar Galactica finished... ::)
15 years ago
Sun May 10 2009, 10:33am
OMG
Whisky is the Doctor!! Looks like that theory floating around that Dolorosa mentioned was true! I still didn't really see it coming though! WOW!
And Firefly mentioned by Toffer!! Loved that!! :D
It was a fantastic episode. It feels like everything they know has been shattered.. especially for Toffer!!
And I was a bit shocked about Ballard asking for Melly/November to be released.
Love that Echo still remembers Caroline...
And I think Ballard is right in talking about what about the soul? Even though the person has been taken out of the body, there is still the soul within the body that remembers the original person. For example, Alpha still having his original serial killer self inside somewhere - seen by the way he cuts people up (reminiscent of the way he cut up that first victim he had as his original self). Then Echo though having those 38 personalities in her brain, underneath it all, Caroline's soul and essence is there.
Oh I'm just so excited so much as been revealed...
But what happens now? Do we look forward to another episode next week and for the weeks to come... leading up to a new season??
Please let me it's so!
Ashling Guildmistress
15 years ago
Sun May 10 2009, 02:16pm
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
Not that you really need this - but I'm watching Dollhouse atm and thoughts that enter my head as I go along:
Beginning and Alpha and Echo: Hmm, why is Echo some hill billy sort of chick? Crazy but weird. Also Alpha seems to be losing his mind. and wow Echo is such a ditz at the start?! I don't get it!
When you find out the doctor was Alpha's girlfriend: YES! Called it - yes people working inside the house have been imprinted as well! But that was sad - as I like the doctor :-/ and seeing a spoiler word in the side bar the other day - I wonder if she was Whiskey?
The bit where Alpha attacks Whiskey in the Bonsai room. Omg! He had the same sort of thing for Echo like Victor had for Ciere. Except :P I like to think that theirs is more 'pure' and not maniacal. Brilliant lead up by Joss with Victor and Ciere for that turning point :D
FINALLY knowing how Alpha became who he was - and then trying to do the same to Echo. :O Brilliant! Joss is a frikken genius! It's so sad, but just brilliant!
Caroline mind and Caroline body bonding and then BANG! ... yeah I fully screamed out (and my mum's like 'What? What?!', cause I knew, I just knew it was coming. Omg omg omg! [act]is gobsmacked - yes it was expected but omg![/act]
Utterly fantastic epidsode! I cannot believe that there is just ONE episode left?!
I hope, on the DVD, that they put on the other episodes that Fox didn't air.
The idea of: A person's soul/essence never really leaving the body is great! I was contemplating an idea of this the other day :P In a nutshell, I was pondering the idea when I was in highschool, I tended to 'like' things because a lot of other people liked them. I'm not saying I liked something I would have normally hated, but people being around you, endorsing products/music/concepts - well, who couldn't think 'Mmm, lotsa people like it, maybe they have something there.
Out of that environment now, I'm able to fully explore what I like and care less about what others think. It's harder though, because I'm so fussy :P I think of fashion as a clear example, where there is so much out there I cringe at the thought of that being on me - and yet for some reason 'it happens to be in'. And at the same time, I'm not sure what I'm looking for that's 'me' I just know what is not for me :P
And so, even though I'm out of the 'highschool' environment, things are still bombarded in my face about 'how to look/act/feel' but I like to think that despite all of this, who I truly am prevails underneath it all. Which - I think is a bit conducive to a message that was coming across in this episode. :nods: Echo/Alpha had how many persona's in here - but hers still came across. Which - if you all recall :P was displayed in the ep where the 5 actives were able to 'release' their stress build up. Linkage! I love it! (L) XD
15 years ago
Sun May 10 2009, 05:22pm
I agree whiplash - I want more!
Am very happy that Ballard asked for November to be released. It sort of redeems him.
Jossie - I squeed muchly at Topher mentioning a sneaky Firefly!
Very good call on the Whisky theory! And the Alpha/Whisky back story - brilliant.
Don't know what else to say - can't believe it's OVER for now...the very end bit would be a far-too-cruel way to leave us...forever.
Regarding the soul never leaving body concept - I'm interested in them exploring this a lot further because - well, what was inside the Wendy girl, then? Would the essence of the person never leaving them mean that whatever's stored on a wedge is inconsequential / not the 'real' person? Is a wedge a copy of a mind rather than the whole mind (to leave the body hollowed)?
It will be interesting to see if they bring November's character back as an ex-doll now, I want to see if she starts remembering any of her time spent in the Dollhouse...sort of, can it work both ways? Alpha (+ Echo?) obviously remember portions of their real selves.
Ashling Guildmistress
15 years ago
Ashling Guildmistress
Mage
What about the line from Whiskey:
'What I don't understand is why did you program me to hate you so much?'
... well said more or less :P
Because, the first impressions I got from the show was that there was a 'thing' between Whiskey and Topher ... but that could just be the little match maker in me :P
Did anyone else pick up/get that?
I'm not sure about that, MK, but I've been discussing that with some other friends, and we can't think of any logical explanation for Topher's behaviour. Our theories range from Topher programming Whiskey to hate him in order to sublimate his guilt in some way, to Topher actually working against the Dollhouse from the inside. None of these theories seem quite right.
What intrigued me more was the fact that Whiskey seemed to be an aware Doll. That is, she seemed to know that she was a Doll, and to have known before it was revealed in this episode. I'm thinking in particular of a comment she makes to Topher, when he says something like 'You're so in love with your work. You never leave', and Whiskey saying something like 'I've got another reason for never leaving this place'.
What are your thoughts on the matter, Obernetters?
Dollhouse would have been aired tonight :'( I am feeling the void
It's taken me awhile to watch it, as my housemates and I hadn't had an evening together until last night, but I thought it was awesome. I think the last two episodes would have benefited from being three episodes - things seemed a little rushed - but they were still pretty damn powerful.
I loved the Whiskey subplot. So poignant. Fans have been speculating about a staff member being a doll from the very beginning of the series - I guess it seemed the logical next step - and I thought they handled it really well. My interpretation of Whiskey/Dr Saunders asking Topher why he'd made her hate him was either that it was guilt on his part or he was attracted to her and wanted to make sure nothing ever happened - again the guilt. Topher seems remarkably amoral and guilt-free most of the time, but occasionally something seems to get to him. I loved his comment about being being the smartest person in the room... but the least scary.
I thought of Dollhouse as being a one season series, but they've left themselves a lot to go on with. We still don't know who was contacting Ballard from within the Dollhouse. I agree with Min that Paul Ballard's request for November to be freed was a kind of redemption. It occured to me, though, that perhaps he is still so obsessed with Echo that he wants her to stay where she is, as she is.
Can't type more as hands are sore. Can we stop using spoiler tags? This is page 5, after all.
Dreamweaver Ward
15 years ago
Sat May 16 2009, 04:33pm
Dreamweaver Ward
Dreamscape Artist
Yay Fox - apparently they're announcing it officially on Monday, but from what I've heard, it sounds very real! ;D
As regards the spoilers, Dollhouse hasn't aired in some places, so I think we should definitely keep spoiler tagging our comments - people are checking out the thread for news, when they haven't been watching it yet...
I think Fox would be absolutely murdered if they didn't now that 'sources' have confirmed it. The actors on twitter are celebrating and everything :P People trying to save it have had the phonelines at Fox down with so many calls!
By 'some places' Zie means 'everywhere except the US' :P It's starting in the UK soon though. I don't know when it will actually air in Aus :( but apparently it's going to be on Foxtel.
I haven't got anything to add but YES! [act]high fives all around[/act]
That's the best news I've had in ages!