Not that womwn cant have deep voices anyway- I have a friend whose voice is very deep- when singing she is a base or low tenor.
Anyone else think that Ariel is Seresh's son?
I don't know if anyone else thinks this too because I only managed to read half the thread before I thought of this and got to exited to go on reading and my brain started to spin thinking that salamander is the destroyer.
Okay when the book first mentioned Salamander I thought it was Ariel in disguise and shortly after that I stopped going to that conclusion. But when the book comes up to the part with the room for the woman where Elspeth finds the cat brooch I actually thought the room was for Elspeth as Ariel first tried to romance her on the dreamtails to get the information he wanted. Then in The Sending one of them mentions a dream where Cassy and Hannah are holding a cat which Elspeth and IC strongly suggest is Maruman's ancestor I start to suspect that the brooch was Salamander's and that she was a descendant of Cassy.
Wow, Ariel as Saresh's son! I had never thought of that. I suppose because Ariel's physical description is vastly different from a sadorian. Does raise alot of questions about Ariels parents though. Other threads are discussing the importance of ancestry (i think Elspeth's heritage is getting a good talking over at the moment) but it's made me realise that Dragon, Rushton and Swallow all have traceable family tree's,maybe we should be thinking about which Beforetimer might have started Ariel's line.
Addie, Salamander as a descendent of Cassie is interesting too. Maybe Salamander is the Kasanda blood, i can see a sort of Gollum, Frodo and Sam final moment at mordor happening at the weapon machines in the Red Queens Land.
New thoughts: The councilman may be working with Seresh and Ariel. Perhaps all three of them are running the slave trade and the TLOTRQ together; they are all connected in some obvious way that Elspeth just can't see...
1) What could connect them?
2) How is Dragon and her mother involved (killed for a reason)?
3) Maybe there is more than one Salamander and 'Salamander' is actually a title? (ok, a little obscure, but the idea popped into my head :p)
Ashlings' guildleader
12 years ago
Wed Mar 07 2012, 12:09am
Ashlings' guildleader
Dreamscape Artist
I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts, he said. My name is Ryan, I inherited the name from the previous Dread Pirate Roberts, just as you will inherit it from me . The real Roberts has been retired fifteen years and is living like a king in Patagonia.... :P
After venturing into my other favorite series last month I finally returned to Obwrnewtyn to immerse myself in the struggles of the Land and its Misfits and to resume the adventures of one Elspeth Gordie, the original girl on fire. I finally obtained a copy of The Sending and the one thing that stuck out to me was the lack of Salamander. He wasn't seen so much as having lunch in Morganna!! This makes no sense because....
The following contains references to The Sending...
There are 4 greatships headed for the Red Queen's Land. In previous books the greatships that the rebels had were conviniently destroyed by the Council or the Herders. Some speculated that Salamander didn't destroy the Sadorian greatships because he was a Sadorian himself but I think he didn't because while Sadorians oppose the slave trade they do not attempt to engage him or hinder him in any way. Black Ship is just one vessel after all and I think a lot of its effectiveness is how it affects those who see it psychologically. Anyway, now more than ever Salamander should be plying the seas.
There are fragmented scenes in The Sending that indicate that the 4 greatships of the "coalition of the willing" have all met some sort of mishap or another. However, that can be attributed to the fact that all the sailors are sailing into new territory. Even with the old maps it is likely that the voyage would be quite perilous. Imagine being becalmed for days at a time and the only visible land is Blacklands! Salamander or even Gadfian raiders could be attacking the ships but it may be in their best interests to do nothing. What threat are a bunch of starving, dehydrated Landfolk and Sadorians to the Red Land?
As to Salamander's identity...I tend to agree that Salamander is Seresh. I do not however agree with the notion that Seresh would willingly participate in the slave trade because she is bitter about her disfigurement. Sadorians revere life and freedom and so I just can't imagine Seresh being on board with enslaving people. So how can Seresh be Salamander if the above is true? Ariel.
Oh everyone loves to bandy Ariel's name about and think of him as some evil mastermind. But what Ariel really is is a defective Misfit with coercion, empathy, and weak futuretelling. Why add the last? My theory as to why Ariel knows so much is that he is like Gavyn in that his birth caused some change to his spirit-self. This change left him very close to the mindstream, thus the futuretelling, without being aware of it and perhaps the defect that causes him to hate so strongly.. Ariel knows he has limitations though and so he uses tools whenever to help him accomplish his goals.
I believe that Ariel may have been on one of the first Herder delegations to Sador and it was there he met Seresh. The kasanda's of the Earthtemple and Jakoby only think Seresh drowned herself. No one ever confirmed her death. I think Seresh faked her death and went to live her life in solitude in the desert. Heck, she could have lived in a cave on the shoreline or even near an isis pool. It doesn't matter, what matters is that Ariel met her there and whisked her away to Norseland after hearing her story. Having the sister of Jakoby in his grasp had a lot of possibilities for Ariel. He could hostage her and hope the Sadorians would give the Councilmen and/or the Herders what they desired. He could use her knowledge of Sadorian ways to plan an invasion of Sador. However, due to his knowledge of the future Ariel knew that these options had little chance of succeeding.
How was Salamander created? The machine in Ariel's Norseland home allowed him to break into people's minds to look for latent Talent enough to be a null and it was also a marvelous way to terrorize someone. Seresh probably didn't have a natural shield or any Talent and so she would have had little defense against Ariel's natural abilities. It may be that Ariel told her he would make her beautiful or at least forget that she was not beautiful if she went along with him. Anyway it goes, Ariel got into her mind with the machine and found what she most feared and hated. However, when he began empathizing in his sick way I think Seresh's mind broke and part of her retreated. That part retained the feminine, Sadorian characteristics and is still Seresh. The part that Ariel empathized with became Salamander, the hated male Gadfian raider. Since this happened prior to what Ariel did with Domick and Mika the technique wasn't perfected and so occasionally Salamander became Seresh again. Over time this transformation may have become controllable because it was said that in the beginning a beautiful woman travelled with Salamander. As odd as this is going to sound...I think when Seresh separated from Salamander she shed all she hated, including her disfigurement. So Salamander is horribly disfigured while Seresh is beautiful.
What I can't speculate too hard on is what became of Seresh after Ariel's Norseland home was captured. Ariel's home may be the only place where Salamander could let Seresh roam without suspicion and now its impossible to return. We know from the Domick/Mika situation that if one personality dies they both die. Domick died physically but Seresh may be fading away little by little spiritually and so to should Salamander bodily.
Speculation for The Red Queen
I think that Salamander will be defeated when Elspeth uses the black sword at Seresh's behest. In The Sending, spirits have come to Elspeth and Seresh may be close enough to the mindstream to reach her. I think she hasn't already because Elspeth has always been too far away before or over water when she's been close to Salamander.
These are my thoughts and crazy theories. Enjoy.
Mystic Ward
11 years ago
Mystic Ward
Twentyfamilies Gypsy
I quite like the crazy theory of Ariel turning Seresh into Salamander. We do know that he has done it to others so there is something to that.
Good theory, HS. If this is so, do you think Ariel is using the machine on other people? And that this machine might be the Zebrakhen 2.0? :P And that Seresh is possibly only one out of a multitude of experiments? Might Ariel be continuing in the footsteps of Madame Vega?
I do agree that Seresh is Salamander (although I hope she's motivated by more than bitterness) - but do you think Jakoby knows?
I think Jakoby has certainly worked it out after the information Elspeth provided about the Gadfian book and the brooch, which is why she said nothing about it to Bruna. It's going to be interesting to see what Jakoby does in The Red Queen.