There are some good theories here! The tidal caves is a good one, and Fuil's calendar idea is good too.
I still don't think that there are actual weapons on the moon. There is another thread on here somewhere discussing how far in the future the Beforetimers are from us. If we're looking at putting a base on the moon in the next 20 years, its a safe bet to assume that the base would've grown quite large by the time of the Beforetimers.
Someone mentioned that there could be people up there, cryo-frozen. This is entriely possible, and not something any of us (correct me if i'm wrong) have thought of before.
Now, if there's a base on the moon, what about Mars? There are plans to put a base there as well. What has happened to all those people? I don't think any of us could imagine what it would be like to stare down from the moon and watch the Earth burn.
The Moon (if they do find water there) could be self sufficient in the Beforetimers time, as could Mars, so the people there could still be living their lives, unaware of the events happening on the Earth (though the people on the moon could at least see some of what was happening through a telescope).
The cryo-freeze option is another idea (certainly for those on the moon). It would be interesting to find out if there were people on the moon and Mars (and also any orbiting space stations), and what happened to them
The idea that Beforetimers might still be living on the moon or Mars with no knowledge of what's happened on Earth is really interesting, although I can't really see it happening. (Although if nothing else, it might explain Mars being in the background on the first edition cover of Ashling. :P) It could explain why Maruman says the moon smells of "her" - she is someone living up there, possibly a cryogenically frozen Beforetimer like Hannah's daughter. But I think any colony on another planet would try to keep in contact with Earth, and wonder what had happened if they didn't hear from it for decades or even centuries. Unless somebody still is in contact with them, they'd surely have sent people to investigate by now.
Fuil, I like the idea of the moon being a more accurate calendar than anything the Land currently has. I agree that it could be at least part of the reason Maruman watches it so much, and seems to relate it to certain events happening.
Yeah - that's a great idea Fuil :D
I'm sure if there's un-frozen people on moon/Mars/Titan/wherever, they would have checked on Earth by now; particularly when all communication stopped. I don't think they'd just leave everyone there to regress into the Dark Ages. So if there are colonies on the moon/anywhere else in our solar system, I'm guessing they will be frozen. Question is, why? Why bother, on a planet that's already terraformed or had a base built? Unless it's just someone specifically needed for Elspeth's quest; but then, Cassy and Hannah were running around Earth for quite a while, I can't see any way they'd get to any other planets after the Great White. So maybe someone else?
The moon smelling of 'she, the DarkOne' in Obernewtyn...could mean...um...don't know. Perhaps Cassy's mother has something further to do with this..? The reason Maruman doesn't like her is because Cassy didn't get on with her? You know what cats are like...(yeah...weak theory I know... :-/ ).
Maruman talking about a specific person (the DarkOne) says to me it can't be weaponmachines up their either. He wouldn't personify a weapon. He'd just call them the glarsh and be done with it :P
I love all these theories- my head is spinning (but that could be to do with my bad eating and sleeping patterns)
Ive had the thought on occasions that perhaps there are satellites in orbit still that have something to do with BOT and INES and that the moon is a symbol for them- post great white people probably wouldnt understand about sattelites but could see the moon..
Plus there must be sattelites for a global retaliation system to work- how else would the computers be able to detect military strikes and retaliate?
Wanderer Ward
15 years ago
Wanderer Ward
Rebel
oh yes, if the weaponmachines were capable of being activated from multiple points in the world the only technology to capture/relay that kind of information are satellites. Of course the books are in the future but it would be a massive leap to invent a surveillance system and way to trigger the weapons from the other side of the panet without using them.
Min: if i remember correctly The DarkOne has only been mentioned once in the first book and never mentioned again. If that is true, maybe it was something to throw us off the scent?
I fear this idea of satellites and weapons being situated on the moon is just too literal, and just too big a leap for The Sending. Lets not forget, these are fantasy books! IC has poured time and effort into 5 books depicting her own amazing world! why would she suddenly drag the series into this harsh reality at the last minute?! I enjoy the ideas of the effect of the moon on the tides, particularly in reference to the cave with whitestick at the beginning of Obernewtyn. This just seems more plausible. It keeps it close to home and allows for a little more creative flexiblity as opossed to a glorified 'space race'.
The words 'Earth' and 'World' are also being thrown about quite freely...hmmm...it wasn't that long ago that Elspeth and friends discovered that the Red Queens Land actually existed...and we still don't really know what lies beyond the blacklands. There is no knowledge of other lands and nationalities other than those mentioned in the OC. I just can't see satellites playing a huge part in the next book...
Welcom Ari (yay -another ashling!)
I still think it's all connected to the dreamtrails somehow - perhaps there is something on the moon - but she travels there on the dreamtrails - this is incoherent nonsense, but it HAS to be all connected!
What about the flies that Maruman refers to in obernewtyn- it's during the same fit - perhaps it has to do with a flying machine of some sort ...?
as i said, just rambling...
hmm. dreamtrails - the moon, legend has had it that dreams are more vivid in the full moon. The moon is the symbol of nights, and dreams are at night? Ok, I'm not making much sense either, am I? But I wouldn't be surprised if there is a connection between the dreamtrails and the moon.
ok, so i'm not in the best state of mind with the tiredness and all to be expalining things and have them make sense, so i'll try and explain it pictorally, and hope you guys understand me better!
Erin says:
moon=dreamtrails
i say maybe:
moon=dreamtrails=ocean=shipfish
except instead of being linear connection it would be more circular, all interconnected like a mind map.
The shipfish have been mentioned and a point of interest in most of the books somewhere, and in TSK we got to see not only elspeth's interaction with shipfish, but with the ocean which until now has been a barrier. I suppose what i'm trying to get at is maybe the shipfish and ocean have more part to play. but now i've gone off on a tangent and forgotten what i meant to say about the moon's part.
Can anyone tell me what the shipfish, if anything, had to say about the moon?
I think i'll have to do a reread now i have more time!
I think that they said something about the moon being sad. I can't really remember very well, but I'm sure that they talked about the moon as though it were a creature with emotions. They said something about the moon turning its face away, or the moon singing a sad song, or the moon having two faces; something like that. :P
Ashlings' guildleader
14 years ago
Ashlings' guildleader
Dreamscape Artist
But Maruman dislikes the moon before he looses his eye. However damaged it is in the first book, he still has two eyes until one is removed for his health after going to Obernewtyn.
This is my first post to Obernet ^///^ I've viewed it thousands of times but never got an account. But I felt I had to today, reading all this stuff.
I think it's plausible that the weapon machines are present on the moon, while the controls are on earth, presumably in TLotRQ.
It's an interesting thought, that there could be people on the moon/mars/etc....I don't want to think it's true, seeing as that would be sooooo heartbreaking if they were to see the GW...But I still think it is plausible.
What if, there WERE people there? The Beforetimers terraform the moon, they set up bases there...people are living there full time.
My thought on this matter is, that they wouldn't nessecarily have the means to communicate/check out a post-GW earth.
See, from what I can imagine about space travelling...if we were to have a colony somewhere, we'd probably have a few shuttles. It is extremely doubtful to me that these shuttles would stay on the moon. I think it's more likely that if these shuttles existed, their occupants were sent in pods to the base. After all, the whole rocket doesn't land on the moon, does it? just the rover/pod, right? I imagine that, if there were people left on the moon, they probably had means to communitcate to earth, but were likely shut out by the computers dying/shutting down. Furthermore, they would have no means of which to return to earth, as their rockets'd be on earth refueling/orbiting the moon or something like that.
I imagine it'd be possible for there to be a whole colony of people/beforetimer's children living up there STILL. I mean, if it were terraformed, they could theoretically sustain themselves...
Thinking about it, do we know the exact circumstances in which the great white occured? Or how the Sentinal works? Does it work by spies transmitting messages that there is a planned attack, or by the production of weapons being monitored? OR maybe, it is that these 5 powers are surveyed by neutral persons on the moon, who tell some other neutral persons on earth, in charge of the WM (in TLOTRQ?) that such and such nation is gearing for attack, and they send an OK up to the moon, who then does that whole GW deal?
Perhaps, there are not neutral people on the moon, but rather, several groups representing the different powers. I can't remember, but I always felt the sentinal was set off by the *intent* to attack rather than the act of attacking/preparation. Meaning that it was controled by thought or something. that's just my feeling. But taking it one step further, what if there was a war on the moon? the weapon machines would know that these groups represented the powers, and while it could not attack itself, it COULD attack the parts of the earth that these groups represented?
Just a thought, really. But it's interesting, isn't it?
I dunno about cryogenically freezing, cause I think they could probably sustain themselves. Also, if they saw the great white take place from space, they would think "nobody's left on earth" maybe, and not try to go back anyhow.
Off topic, I always wondered...Does IC ever say that the whole earth was affected by the GW? I kinda get the feeling that there were some places untouched where life goes on...but like, the people (beforetimers?) there think everyone on the Land or other places around there are full of mutants like the ones carved on the old doors of Obernewtyn, and have no intention to interact with them. They could possibly stay in contact with the moon, even? there could be beforetime and post-apocalyptic time existing together? weird....
About the silent vale....that was something I felt to be significant from the second or third reading of the 1st book. She drops a rock down...and a murmur responds? What if she woke up a machine? Or, you know, the rock hit a switch? :P Furthermore, she does this impulsively. I always figured that Elf's fate would be something she came to almost accidentally. Like, the course of her life brings her further in her quest naturally. What if the dropping of the rock was just another subtle clue? I agree with the idea that, as the Silent Vale needs a certain direction of light from the *sun* to be lit up, then naturally, if the moon were in a certain position, then it would cause something as well?
I kind of connect this to the idea of daywatcher and nightwatcher. As we have learned, Gahltha is the daywatcher. He is generally in charge of taking care of Elspeth in, what could be called, more ordinary situations. OR rather, life situations. While Maruman, the moonwatcher, is in charge of the fate situations/quest situations/extraordinary stuff. It kind of makes sense to me that something ordinary done durring the day, such as dropping a rock in a gap in the earth, could relate to something extraordinary that must be done under the moon, like deactivating the weaponmachines or finding a sign or something.
well, I've rambled on that line for a while...teehee~
but I am not done yet. Sorry, LONG post!
Okay, so who is the "Her" Maruman smells? I think it *is* his old owner, or potentially his owner from his alternate/real-reality life, that he has caught the scent of. I have to read that sequence again, but I "like" the idea that Maruman was tested on the moon in some facility. That his human owner, that girl, sent him there? So why would he smell her when he looks at the moon? perhaps he associates her betrayal with his transfer to the moon? so he "reminisces" about her or is reminded of her everytime he looks to the moon...or, perhaps it is like was stated somewhere around here, that Maruman's real-reality is in the beforetime, and he's just on the dreamtails in the time we experiance through the books. perhaps he is looking to the moon, wondering about his real body? Something confusing like that is possible. He could be getting tormented and looks to the moon angrily as he tries to resist it? I don't know.
Those are basically every thought I've had in the last two hours! Sorry if this is WAY too long to read >.> I hope it isn't :>
(text sized by relevance lol)
Ashlings' guildleader
14 years ago
Thu Aug 27 2009, 07:33pm
Ashlings' guildleader
Dreamscape Artist
If there was a colony on the moon I find it very doubtful that there would be anyone there by the time in which the story is set. It would be all but impossible to make a lunar colony self sufficient and there are only two known assets of having a base there; the first is for observational purposes of the wider universe (no atmospheric interference), the second is possible high levels of silicon for mining.
If there is a computer machine up there, then we know from INES that it could probably run itself. It would go mad without 'intellectual stimulation', but it could run itself. There would be no need for a colony to keep the computer running and I can't imagine anyone paying for something so expensive if there was away around it. Besides, computers don't back chat. Governments and corporations would appreciate a colony run by such obedience.
That does not, rule out the possibility of a permanent colony which was dependent on supplies from Earth/Mars. (It's easier to get something from Mars to the moon than from Earth, can't remember why, but it's true)
Also, I don't think that reentry without breakup can be achieved with very much consistency without help from ground control.
What I'm getting at is...that if there was a human colony up there in the first place, they probably starved to death. That would be sad.
Maybe that's why the moon is considered sad?
See I always thought that the cyrogenically frozen before timers were stored on the moon and sentinel would awaken them. They would then recreate the great white again, thus the "evil" of the moon and the destruction of the world.
I like the idea that Elf has to go to the moon- that would be strange :P
It is said that the moon creates waves, I feel that Elspeth has a bond with the ocean. She said in TSK "I could hear the song of the waves so clearly now, and there was a vast, encompassing serenity in it that made me feel very small and insignificant". Elspeth feels a lot of pressure as The Seeker and she wants to feel small and insignificant. Gilbert tells her one night that he had no right to aspire to her "I do not think I am better than you" Elspeth had said. So I think Elspeth might feel discomfort of even guilt that she has a quest to fulfill that makes her important when all she wants is to feel insignificant and small because it gives her a sense of calmness that nothing else can.