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Has anyone been able to calculate what Elspeth's exact age is in each book?

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Wanderer

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Wanderer

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15 years ago
Has anyone been able to calculate what Elspeth's exact age is in each book?

I can't remember if a number is ever given in "Obernewtyn" as to how old, exactly, she is - or wether we are simply supposed to assume that she is somewhere in her mid teens and the exact number is something subjective left up to each individual reader...

Can anyone here put an exact figure on it?
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pat673

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15 years ago
I'm just taking a stab in the dark here: 23 years old at the end of the Stone Key. Don't know why, but that's the number that comes to me, call me psychic.
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15 years ago
I imagine her to be about 16 in Obernewtyn, 18 in Farseekers, 19 in Ashling, 21 in TKP and 23 in TSK.
But those are just guesses. I don't think we're ever given an exact age.
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15 years ago
They seem good guesses but for some reason I always thought she was much younger when the series started in Obernewtyn, Farseekers is 2 years later I'm almost certain. Not sure of the gap between Farseekers and Ashling or TKP. but its only one year between TKP and TSK, or less even, its hard to jusdge when seasons are more fluid and unlike ours.
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15 years ago
According to my calculation she's 19 in TSK. Say she was 14 in Ober, and Farseekers happens 2 years later, so that'd make her 16. Ashling is like a year later, and Keeping Place is like the begins with the beginning of the next year, and TSK begins in spring the next year, I think.

I think she was 14 in Ober because that's about the age Isobelle was when she began writing it, and we know that Elspeth at the beginning is a lot like she was at that time. And I was 14 when I read it so I wanted her to be 14. And she seemed like a kid, and it mentions that Jess is 16, so she can't be. She had to be younger than 16 in Obernewtyn.
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15 years ago
I put a rough timeline (my thoughts only) on the Submit to the Archives meesage board thingy, under 'important threads' on this obernewtyn theories forum (whew! that's a long way of describing where it is!). Anyway, it's about oh, 6 topics up from this one.

I've put rough times for events and the rough ages for Rushton, Elspeth, Dragon and Ariel. I've gone for Elpeth being about 14 at the start and about 20/21 in TSK. Love to know what others think.
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15 years ago
In Obernewtyn about chapter 7 or 6 It clearly states Elspeth is 16, not 14 as according to the Encylopedia... Im guessing she'd be 18 in The Farseekers, 19-20 In Ashling, 22 in The Keeping Place and 23 In TSK.
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15 years ago
I have never seen Elf's age in Obernewtyn, it does say that her brother Jes is 16 and that he has two years till he gets his certificate. Once he has that he could petition to have Elf with him so that would make her younger which is where the 14 comes in. there is another thread on here called (I think) time lines that has an earlier discussion on this also.
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15 years ago
I don't thonk she has a fixed age(carmody said), and she acted older i n the farseekers than she did in ashling...,
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15 years ago
In Obernewtyn about chapter 7 or 6 It clearly states Elspeth is 16, not 14 as according to the Encylopedia... Im guessing she'd be 18 in The Farseekers, 19-20 In Ashling, 22 in The Keeping Place and 23 In TSK.
The_Farseeker

It doesn't.

On the last page of Chapter 5, it clearly states that Jes is 16.

Then in Chapter 9 when she meets Ariel for the first time it says "of no more than 11 or 12".

I would put Elspeth's age around 13 -14, it has never clearly been determined.
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15 years ago
In an interview i saw in yr 10, IC said Elspeth was about 14 in Obernewtyn. That makes her 16 in Farseekers, 17 in Ashling and she turns 18 at some stage in TKP (because the says of rain happen in Ashling and then occur again in TKP or are about to). So one year later in TSK she is 19. :)
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13 years ago
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13 years ago
I recon that she must be 14 or 15 in Obernewtyn, because Jes is 16 there, and if she was any younger that makes Rushton a pedo. The Farseekers is 2 years later, Ashling is maybe 1 year later. The Keeping Place is 1 year later because it said in Ashling that there was a prediction that Elspeth would die by next fall (or something similar) if she didn't return Iriny to her people, and that was proved during the reblion. The Stone Key is 1 year later because the first election is taking place.

So here is my sumary:

Book 1: 14

Book 2: 16

Book 3: 17

Book 4: 18

Book 5: 18-19

But she seems a bit older by the way she describes herself in the books...
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13 years ago
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13 years ago
I think I'd seem a bit older too if I had to run an entire guild, complete death defying missions, prevent the destruction of the world and rescue my boyfriend from the clutches of my evil arch nemesis :P
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13 years ago
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13 years ago
I think Elspeth is about 16 in book 1 and then i think it said 2 years later in the farseekers and then i lost count, but i think she must be at least 20 in TSK.
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13 years ago
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13 years ago
Emma, IC has specifically stated that Elspeth is fourteen in book one.
Kitty

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13 years ago
There is a bigger gap between the books than you've got.

Assume Elspeth is 14 at the beginning of Obernewtyn, which is in the spring (or certainly well before harvest, because she takes part in that). Obernewtyn ends at the beginning of winter.

Farseekers starts two years later, again in the autumn. So Elspeth is at least 16 then. But it doesn't finish until the following spring, by which time she must be 17.

Ashling begins in the autumn, and talks about her return 'last year' - which must by then be about 18 months ago at least. So this is two years after the start of Farseekers, and Elspeth must be at least 18.

The Keeping Place is the spring after Ashling, which is therefore 5 years after the beginning of Obernewtyn and so Elspeth is at least 19.

The Stone Key is another year after that (they tried building boats that got burnt, Rushton behaved worse towards her etc.) and so Elspeth must be at least 20 by this time.

While she's certainly had lots of pressure to behave as older than she is, there is certainly room for her to be a bit older: everyone does a lot of growing up in the earlier books, so adding an extra year between Obernewtyn and Farseekers or between Farseekers and Ashling would fit - Ariel has grown up a lot, as has Matthew. You could also argue that Elspeth was 15 at the start of Obernewtyn, but she has to be younger than Jes, and Jes was 16.
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13 years ago
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13 years ago
That is very good research Kitty. I always imagined everyone younger than described, but once they had sorta saved the world, I had to let go of my theory that they're all 10.
*scowls at being disproven*
No, you did well Kitty.
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13 years ago

Mon Jun 07 2010, 08:35pm
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13 years ago
Farseekers starts two years later, again in the autumn. So Elspeth is at least 16 then. But it doesn't finish until the following spring, by which time she must be 17.

Ashling begins in the autumn, and talks about her return 'last year' - which must by then be about 18 months ago at least. So this is two years after the start of Farseekers, and Elspeth must be at least 18.
Kitty

I disagree, last year doesn't necessarily mean that a full twelve months has passed since an event. People talk about things that happened in December 'last year' in mid January. Assuming that they don't have a 'new year' the way we do, then people would count by seasons and anything that happened over a full season cycle previous to that would be considered "the year before that".
If you make the argument that they do have a "new year" the way we do, it depends entirely on where you place it. If it's in winter the way it is in Europe atm, then you're completely right. But there isn't really any reason for that to be the case. New year occurs at different times in different cultures and the books are all contained in IC's head. IC is an Aussie, so new year for them could easily be in summer like it is for us.
Mid winter celebrates the rebirth of the solar cycle, mid summer is just a flip of this due to being in the southern hemisphere. Alternative places to have new year might be; the end of winter to celebrate the new growth, mid spring to indicate the start of the new agricultural cycle, the end of Summer to fair-well the warmth, mid autumn to celebrate the end of the harvest, the end of autumn to farewell the life around them.

The rebirth of the solar cycle was important in historic Europe because the sun was worshipped as a god. It is possible that they would have kept this tradition, but they haven't really kept any other before time celebrations so I got the impression that they rejected them along with everything else. Bearing this in mind, if I was going to pick a replacement I'd go with either mid spring because the land was extremely agricultural based when it was being set up or the end of autumn because herders are depressing like that I can see them influencing people to focus on the bad things around them.

Other indicators include Elspeth referring to riding through fresh snowfalls with Galtha at Obernewtyn, but then again those could have been in the high mountains and from the same year. I can't see Rushton waiting around the best part of 18 months for word from Brydda, but then again, Domik would have needed a while to get so far into the council. Another view point is that TKP happens a season after Ashling and TSK, a season after TKP. The large gap in story time between The Farseekers and Obernewtyn serves a purpose, but between The Farseekers and Ashling there isn't really any reason for a delay and every reason to hurry on and get things done. They've found potential allies after thinking they'd have to fight the council on their own, that's no time to be sitting around and waiting, it's a time for action!

I'm not disagreeing entirely, she could well be 18 by then, I've always thought it was ambiguous, I'm just disagreeing that you can definitely tie it down and say it was one year or two, much as we'd like to.
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13 years ago

Mon Jun 07 2010, 10:07pm
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13 years ago
People talk about things that happened in December 'last year' in mid January.
Sian

The reason people say 'last year' for the previous month is because we have a definite new year and celebrations for that. In the series so far we have seen all of the summer months, but there hasn't been anything resembling a new year, which suggests to me that if they have one, it will be during the winter.

Assuming that they don't have a 'new year' the way we do, then people would count by seasons and anything that happened over a full season cycle previous to that would be considered "the year before that".

I don't quite understand what you're saying here - why should anything that happened in the previous season be 'last year'?

If you make the argument that they do have a "new year" the way we do, it depends entirely on where you place it. If it's in winter the way it is in Europe atm, then you're completely right. But there isn't really any reason for that to be the case. New year occurs at different times in different cultures and the books are all contained in IC's head. IC is an Aussie, so new year for them could easily be in summer like it is for us.

It could be in the summer, or indeed any other time of year. But we've seen most of the year over the course of the books, and there doesn't seem to be anything. Also, they are in Europe, so they're more likely to stick to that - yes, they've changed things and tried to abandon the past, but dates for new year, or at least the season for new year, doesn't tend to change with religions, for example.

Also, the reason Europeans had new year in the winter is because it was part of a midwinter festival that was important as everyone was so cold - there was hope for warmer weather. Obernewtyn certainly has that, which would tend to make them think of the years lasting from winter to winter.

I'm not saying it definitely has to be in the middle of winter, but I think either beginning, middle or end of winter (ie the period the pass is shut) is most likely.

Other points: in the epilogue of the Farseekers, Elspeth has a conversation with Maruman in the autumn when it is soon going to snow again. It is raining heavily. But when Elspeth arrives back in Obernewtyn at the beginning of Ashling, Rushton notices the rain and says "So the Days of Rain begin" - so they can't have had any rain in recent weeks - and winter is not that soon as there is no rush to return before the pass snows shut. Yet Elspeth has not time to have the conversation with Maruman, yet she is clearly aware of it. Therefore, it can't be the same year.

Descriptions of Domick show he has changed: "There was no sign of that youth in the man that stood before me" (Ashling, chapter 8 )

Domick also says himself he has worked for the Council for some time: "You think that after so many seasons faithful service, the council would not reward a loyal worker?" (Ashling, chapter 10) 6 months is hardly "so many seasons" - if anything, this suggests more than a year and a half.

The Stone Key is set the year after The Keeping Place, because they are about to hold the elections Dardelan promised for a year after the rebellion.
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13 years ago

Wed Jun 30 2010, 09:31pm
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13 years ago
Forgive me, I had a mistake in my previous diagram. My argument based on this implied that you're argument required that there be a new year. I've redrawn it and it is now apparent that it does not.

Assuming that they don't have a 'new year' the way we do, then people would count by seasons and anything that happened over a full season cycle previous to that would be considered "the year before that".

I don't quite understand what you're saying here - why should anything that happened in the previous season be 'last year'?

Kitty

I never said anything about a season being referred to as last year, I said over a season cycle ago. You know, as in Summer, then Autumn, then Winter, then Spring, then back to Summer. The previous Summer is 'last year'.

The Stone Key is set the year after The Keeping Place, because they are about to hold the elections Dardelan promised for a year after the rebellion.
Kitty
You forget that in Obernewtyn, Winter takes up much more than the approximate three months. They return just before winter and come back just after winter, so it has to have been just over a season and they are approaching the elections, not necessarily about to have them immediately. This suggests that it is a little under a year and depending on how long winter goes for, this is very plausible.

People talk about things that happened in December 'last year' in mid January.
Sian
The reason people say 'last year' for the previous month is because we have a definite new year and celebrations for that.
Kitty
For the record. I said that myself.

[quote] It could be in the summer, or indeed any other time of year. But we've seen most of the year over the course of the books, and there doesn't seem to be anything. Also, they are in Europe, so they're more likely to stick to that - yes, they've changed things and tried to abandon the past, but dates for new year, or at least the season for new year, doesn't tend to change with religions, for example.

Also, the reason Europeans had new year in the winter is because it was part of a midwinter festival that was important as everyone was so cold - there was hope for warmer weather. Obernewton certainly has that, which would tend to make them think of the years lasting from winter to winter.
[/quote1275962996]
That's just completely wrong. The reason Europeans had new year in winter is because it was decided to make it part of the mid winter festivals when new year on Jan 1 was made an official part of the Gregorian calendar. Previous to that there were various dates including March 1 to celebrate the start of spring and March 25 to celebrate spring equinox. Additionally, the pagan's were thought to have celebrated new year at Samhain, which is in Autumn. The only thing that's kept new year relatively constant in Europe the last few centuries is the Gregorian calendar. And considering the absence of words like 'week', 'month', and 'monday', I think it's fairly safe to say that they've thrown that out.
If there was a mid winter celebration, don't you think we'd have heard of it? The only thing we hear about is moonfair. which happens in (I think, based on TKP instead of Ashling) Spring. Which coincidentally, is when two of the previous European celebrations occurred, and is the start of the agricultural year.
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13 years ago
Yes, I think that Elspeth was around 14 in Obernewtyn, and like others I notice a great age/maturity difference between Obernewtyn and the others - because of the age Isobelle was when she wrote them.
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13 years ago
I saw in an interview with Isobelle (I think it was for TSK) that she said she had no defenite age, but was pre-teen. Which means, at oldest, she would have been 12. All I deduct from this is that Rushton is a pedo :(
So I'm going to go on believing that Elspeth was 14 :)
Edit: Even though she wasn't.
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13 years ago
I saw a youtube, I think there was a link to it on this site somewhere, can't remember where, in which Isobelle definitely said Elspeth was pre-teen in Ober.

I agree with you Axe that it's a bit too creepy that Rushton fell in love with her when she was 12 so I like to go on thinking she was 14!
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13 years ago
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13 years ago
i don't think they even did anything until after TSK which i guess is why elspeth is always going on about how she never really knew what her feelings were until ashling and why she was still a little awkward about them even after then - she was just too young. i don't think rushton could be called a pedo lol just for the beginnings of his attraction in obernewtyn - he was only 19 and she was 13/14 - neither acted on their emotions until much later. also remember this is a post-apocalyptic society where some aspects of society could be said to regress - i.e. people's ideas of appropriate bonding ages could be different to ours due to the way of thinking they've had to adopt... maybe similar to that in pre-modern europe? in some cultures as soon as you're able to reproduce physically you can be bonded.
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13 years ago
Isobelle definitely said Elspeth was pre-teen in Ober.
lolaferocious
Pre-teen? Really? She may be naÃ¯ve in several ways but she seems too mature to be less than fourteen, or thirteen at the outside. I guess the things she had to live through would make her grow up faster than most, but still I think this will be one of those cases where I ignore what the author intended and go with what I imagined when I read it.

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