Ok so one thing we have been told is that the destroyer is possibly an innocent. I just had this thought, sorry if anybody had already put it forward...
What if Entina/Sentinal is being used like the Zebracan and other machines to find a mind that is powerful enough to activate the weapons without electricity? Maybe Matthew ends up being taken to Sentinal and has the mental ability to activate it, making him an innocent Destroyer. But Elspeth comes to the rescue, hopefully on time.
Does this sound plausible?
16 years ago
Sun Feb 10 2008, 09:45pm
Hey, you should check out the TSK spoilers thread, this kind of theory has been kicked around quite a bit :) !
I'm starting to think the destroyer might be Dameon .... will post a thread on it later, but his behaviour was definitely different... and you can't just put it down to rushton envy.
16 years ago
Sun Feb 10 2008, 09:58pm
Not sure, but it's an interesting theory. I think what you have to remember that disk thing that Elspeth retrieved from the Earthtemple: why would she need it if she could just go in like Matthew? Also, don't forget (correct me if I'm wrong) Inle is able to work by itself and power this huge complex with its assumed (but not mentioned?) power source, so I don't think Sentinel would need a misfit mind.
My theory i've discussed on another thread is that the destroyer is innocent, as they are the destroyer of the weaponmahines. in light of the ending of the TSK, maybe Elf had to flee from the destroyer on the dreamtrails because their mind is linked Ariel, or Ariel is somehow watching their mind/dreamtrails to guide them to do his bidding, hmm..
okay i think that Ariel knows the preson who will activate the weaponmachines and thus he is guiding their path/enabling Elf to find the weaponmachines. we know Ariel sees alot but does not see all, maybe he believes the destroyer to destroy the world, but i think the destroyer will onlu destroy the machines,
that or Elf's saving Rushton has distrupted the course of things.
But i really believe teh destroyer to be innocent and the destroyer of the machines only.
ok none of tht was coherent...need sleep..early start, will try to be more coherent 2moro! ~:| ???
16 years ago
Mon Feb 11 2008, 07:33am
I see what you're saying - that the Destroyer isn't going to blow up the world, he's going to destroy the weaponmachines?
Only problem is in Farseekers:
'The machines have slept without harm for hundreds of lifetimes. The danger of their discovery alone would not be enough to make me act. But I have forseen that there is another funaga whose destiny is to discover and resurrect the machines...'
The Destroyer's role, I think it says from this, is that they'll stumble upon the weaponmachines - and the resurrect part to me says activate.
Of course - all by accident, I'm betting.
But it is the Seeker's role to destroy the weaponmachines (deactivate). If the Destroyer's role was to do this as well - it'd be like having 2 Seekers :)
Hi everyone... I haven't been on here in quite some time but of course TSK has got me all excited and I thought I'd pop in and see what everyone's saying.
A thought re the Destroyer: I remember Isobelle saying in an interview it's someone who's been around since book 1. I can't remember if Dell was present in book 1 or not (I think perhaps not) but if so, she would be an interesting candidate given her fascination with Ines - what if west-coast Ines is still somehow linked to weaponmachine Ines, and Dell manages to awaken the latter?
Dell wasn't mentioned until the guilds were established - and that's book 2 :)
Yeh I can't really see Dell being the destroyer...
I was just re-reading my profile signiture/quote and what does maruman mean when he says Elf has to go to the mountains to fullfill the profecy? Does it just mean she has to go there in order for her destiny to begin or does she actually fullfill the gypsy prophesy there? Has anyone talked about that yet? (Probably, I'm so behind...)
I also think it was stated that the destroyer was a male.
(I've also read on these forums that she said it wasn't Ariel... could someone please confirm this? Thanks!)
16 years ago
Tue Feb 12 2008, 08:55pm
Isobelle herself has never said they are male, but Atthis has, and since she has the role of the "voice of truth", I for one believe she's telling the truth. Unless she is just being sexist :P .
Also, she's never to my knowledge confirmed it isn't Ariel, but the clues she has given us(check out the interview page here on Ober.net) strongly imply it's not him. However, it's also generally agreed that Ariel is *the* nemesis/antagonist.
1. The Destroyer isn't necessarily evil
2. What happens at the end is an accident
3. No one has ever guessed them-now, I know we are sceptical about this, but I am pretty sure that many, many people jumped at the clues seeming to lead to Ariel and were clamouring that it was him at the time of her saying that, so I think this clue alone rules him out.
4. We will be surprised. It's someone not obvious at first, but who will seem obvious once revealed. Call me stupid, but I think if it had been announced as Ariel a few years ago, we all would have been all, oh, that's so lame. Coz when she said that, we all thought it was Ariel.
5. The general consensus is also that H'rayka and Destroyer are not the same thing. And it is confirmed that Ariel is H'rayka.
However, arguing for Ariel, he's obviously a complete nutter, he was in Book 1 and he IS definitely after the WMD.
Oh, and the dark chasm which presumably has the WMD is in the mountains, "across blackland plains", is it not? The one she saw from Marisa's memories in Obernewtyn with the brown smoke emanating from it. Which is what the prophecy refers to as Elf must go there?? But then there's still the moon to fit in there somewhere.
Oh right, for some reason I keep presuming the mountains refers to Obernewtyn. I get it now.
Great summary btw.
Right, Larkin anybody? He was around when Marissa was and knows a lot about the gypsys coming with the the door, etc. Maybe he knows everything marissa knows, and she knew a lot including where the weapons are. Think about it, opposites. Elf=younger female with powers, Larkin=old, male no powers.
Definitely the Destroyer.
Hehe, just kidding. But not really. At this point anyone could be. I'm confused.
I've thought of Larkin too... I mean, what other use for his character is there? He has been around since book one, but hasn't really done anything.
Also, he is the only adult misfit at Obernewtyn - why?
And, he refers to Selmar as the hope of Obernewtyn - no one else was supposed to know what Alexi et al were up to trying to find hte weapon machines
Oh oh, gotta go
I'm sure Henry Druid has been mentioned in this context before. He doesn't actually appear as such in book 1, but he is mentioned -- and wasn't he desperately interested in Beforetime weapons etc? What are his chances of having made an Ariel/Houdini type escape from the firestormed camp, I wonder... Just a shot in the dark!
I've been arguing that Larking is SOME sort of Seraphim - either lukas or his son by his first wife - so maybe he could be the destroyer, with an inherited thirst for the knowledge of the weaponmachines.
I still think it's dameon - WHAT has he done so far in the series except be a friend and thwarted lover?
Dameon just doen't make sense to me, that is as a Destroyer. And i don't think Henry Druid will be either, though I wouldn't be surprised if he turn out to be alive. A lot of characters feel like their story hasn't finished yet, but are supposedly dead.
I must agree with Nef's idea of Dameon being the destroyer. Every key person in Elf's life has some sort of role to fulfill: Ariel and Swallow are tied in with the whole weapons thing, Dragon is the red queen's daughter, Matthew has some part to play in the uprising with Dragon, and Rushton is the leader of the misfits. And who does that leave?
Dameon. He's been there since the beginning, he's certainly an innocent and he's certainly close enough to Elf that it's going to hurt her if he (intentionally or not) gets mixed up in her quest. There has to be something more in the series for him to do because so far he's done nothing.
Maybe he finally cracks under the strain of loving Elf but not getting her (I mean in TSK, he was sounding a little stressed) and then Ariel somehow manages to tempt him into doing some incredily crazy/stupid.
I will now duck as all the Delfeon (Dameon/Elf fans) pelt me to death with rotten tomatoes.
*Ducks*
Personally I think Larkin has something to do with revealing more about the past, I don't think he's the destroyer. I also don't think Dameon is the destroyer, but he could be. I think he's going to the Red Queen's land. If Dragon hasn't recovered her memories, then who will look after her? She hates Elspeth, and I think Kella has other responsibilities and is too mentally messed up to go to tLotRQ... which would mean Dameon would have to go to make sure Dragon feels secure. But the other thing you have to remember is that throughout the fives books we see Dameon portrayed as very wise and caring, I doubt he could be tricked by Ariel (who Dameon probably hates heaps). Atm I think Min's Matthew theory is probably what's going to happen.
16 years ago
Thu Feb 14 2008, 11:29am
Do people really think that Dameon is going to crack and be tempted by Ariel? There is no way I believe that will happen. Maybe he is feeling the strain of Elspeth's insistence upon using him as her romantic interpreter/best girlfriend type role...
but Dameon is stronger than that! If he is the Destroyer, it won't directly be to do with being upset about Elspeth.
16 years ago
Wed Feb 13 2008, 10:13pm
Re: Dameon as the destroyer, I just had an interesting thought.
In TSK, Ariel is described as an inverted empath (I think that was it - don't have my copy with me right now). Now, I can't exactly imagine what that would entail - what is the reverse of empathy, which is the ability to both receive and transmit feelings? We'll have to wait and see, I guess, but my thought was that if Ariel is an inverted empath and Dameon probably the strongest empath around (being guildmaster and all), maybe the inverted-ness (if I can invent that word) of Ariel's talent gives him a special hold over someone like Dameon with such strong empathy.
Which would explain Elspeth's complete lack of empathy, if she needs to be able to withstand Ariel's talent - I've always thought there would end up being a good reason for her complete lack of empathy, which is so often emphasised in the books.
16 years ago
Thu Feb 14 2008, 07:42am
Dameon is much stronger than that :D
And re the empathy - I've always thought that Elspeth would need Dameon's empathy in the end too - since she lacks it. And when she has to use his talent, his real feelings will be revealed...[act]sobs[/act] But I think rather than Ariel having a special hold over Dames, we might find out why the books have been saying Empathy is the most important talent...because he might be the only one that can withstand Ariel - knowing the difference between his own emotions and Ariel's projected emotions. Maybe? That sort of shielding might be important for Elf to finish her quest...
I agree with Min that Dameon is much stronger than that. I think his ability and choice to ignore pain is somehow linked with his empathic strength. Perhaps, he could not be so strong if he could not take the pain. Malek and his men had a bad effect on empaths near them. Anger can burn. (the aggylian of Kasanda's time, for example) Imagine what hate can do. Dameon would have felt the hatred of others before he knew peace at Obernewtyn.
Elspeth's lack of the Talent of empathy doesn't protect her from Ariel. If anything, she would be more resistant otherwise. (remember the dream when he tries tells him he needs her et cetera. Empaths are more resistant to submitting to that sort of coercion).
Also I'd say that Dameon has done something important - he spent all that time in Sador with the Temple guardians, and I don't think that's for naught.
